Thursday, 14th August 1913 State Fights Franks Alibi

Atlanta Georgian
August 14th, 1913

CONLEY ADMITTED MIND WAS BLANK DAY OF CRIME, GIRL SAYS

NEGRO DRUNK DAY OF CRIME, MISS CARSON SWEARS HE TOLD HER

Miss Helen Curran, a pretty girl of 17 years, proved one of the strongest witnesses Thursday for the defense in establishing what will be claimed as an alibi for Leo M. Frank. She testified that she saw Frank at 1:10 o'clock the afternoon Mary Phagan was murdered standing by Jacobs' Drug Store, Whitehall and Alabama streets, apparently waiting for his car home.

The State fought hard against the "alibi" witnesses.

The defense devoted most of the forenoon session to producing persons who had seen Frank on the day of the tragedy. Miss Curran was probably the most important as she was the only one who professed to have seen Frank immediately after the time he has stated he left the factory.

Others were called who saw him as he arrived home at about 1:20 o'clock, or as he was on his way back to the factory later in the afternoon. It was the purpose of Frank's lawyers, so far as they could, to account for every minute of his time during the day.

Appreciating that the case of the State against the defendant was hit by Miss Curran's story, Attorney Frank A. Hooper made a determined effort to confuse or break down the young witness, but failed to shake her in the least.

The significance of the girl's testimony is apparent in the light of Jim Conley's story. The negro said he and Frank started to dispose of Mary Phagan's body at 12:56. Allowing two minutes for Frank to get from the factory to Whitehall and Alabama streets, he would have had to leave the building at 1:08. This would have left but 12 minutes for the two to dispose of the body and do everything else the negro mentioned.

Conley testified that he was in the closet in Frank's office eight minutes. This would have reduced the remaining time to four minutes. Part of this was occupied in writing the notes, Conley says.

Thirty-two Minutes to Dispose of Body.

If the negro could have written the four notes in two minutes, two minutes would have been left for the disposal of the body. But Harry Scott, Pinkerton detective, said that Conley took six or seven minutes in writing one test note exactly like the shorter note that was found by the slain girl's body. The defense contended that this, in view of Miss Curran's testimony, puts Conley's story in the realm of the impossible.

Miss Curran said that she lived at No. 160 Ashby street and that she knew Frank from trying to get a position as stenographer at the factory one time. She said that on the day she saw Frank she had an appointment to meet a girl friend at Jacobs' store at 1:15. She left Kress' store at 1:05, she testified, and had been at Jacobs' only a short time when she observed Frank.

Attorney Hooper brought out the fact that her father is employed by Montag Bros., who also are interested in the pencil factory. He asked her at one point in his examination:

Miss Rebecca Carson, called primarily as an alibi witness, told of suspicious conversations and actions of the negro Jim Conley.

"No, Miss Rebecca, I wasn't at the factory Saturday. I was so drunk that I don't know what I did or where I was," she testified that Conley said when she asked him on the Monday after the crime if he had been in the factory at the time the murder was committed.

She also said that Conley had appeared greatly startled when Mrs. Carson, her mother, had said in his presence that she thought they would find the murderer when they found the negro that Mrs. Arthur White saw at the foot of the stairs.

Two more character witnesses, Harry E. Lewis, of Brooklyn, formerly the District Attorney of New York, and Herbert Lasher, of Fleischman's, N. Y., a classmate of Frank's at Cornell, testified that they knew the defendant well and that they knew his character to be good.

Sig Montag of Montag Bros., treasurer of the National Pencil Company, told of his part in the hiring of the Pinkertons and of Frank's demeanor the Sunday the body of the girl was found. He testified, in refutation of Jim Conley's story about watching at the front door at the direction of Frank, that the first floor on occasions of which Conley told was the property of the Clark Woodenware Company, and that it was used by the pencil company only as an entrance.

Montag was asked by Dorsey just before he left the stand if he tried several times to hire a horse and buggy the afternoon of April 26 from W. D. Brown, a West End liveryman. The witness said he had not.

"Don't you know that Kress' store was closed all of Saturday afternoon, April 26?"

"It wasn't closed at the time I went in there in the afternoon," she replied.

The attorney also sought to show that the crowds were so dense that afternoon that she would not have been likely to see Frank.

Miss Curran was the first of a long string of alibi witnesses for Frank. Still others are to be called to present to the jury a record of the defendant's every movement throughout the day so far as it is known.

Important Battle Lost by Defense.

An important battle was lost by the defense in the Frank trial Thursday in the over-ruling of Luther Rosser's motion for the expunging of Solicitor Dorsey's questions of the day before relating to Frank alleged acts of immorality.

The defeat of Attorney Rosser came immediately after Solicitor Dorsey had failed in an attempt to have Frank's mother and wife excluded from the courtroom because of the elder woman's sensational outburst of the afternoon before, when she dramatically denounced the Solicitor for his charge of grossly improper conduct against her son, the defendant.

Judge Roan refused the motion of the Solicitor, but said that he would refuse them admission if another outbreak of the sort took place.

With the preliminary skirmishes of the day settled, the defense set out with great minuteness to complete its record of Frank's movements throughout the day of the crime.

Miss Helen Curran, No. 150 Ashby […]

FRANK NERVOUS, MONTAG ADMITS, ‘AND I WAS, TOO'

[…] street, testified that she saw Frank near Jacobs' drug store, Whitehall and Alabama streets, at 1:10 o'clock Saturday afternoon apparently waiting for his car home.

Saw Frank Get Off Car.

Mrs. Albert P. Levy, No. 69 East Georgia avenue, swore that she saw Frank get off his car on Georgia avenue at 1:20 o'clock the afternoon of the crime.

Mrs. M. G. Michael, of Athens, Georgia, aunt of Mrs. Leo Frank, said that she was visiting at the home of Mrs. C. Wolfsheimer, No. 387 Washington street, three doors from Georgia avenue, and that Frank came up to the steps ata bout 2 o'clock to speak to her, leaving a moment later to catch a Washington street car at Glenn street.

Jerome Michael, son of the previous witness, testified that he was on the steps at the time and that Frank walked up the street between 1:55 and 2 o'clock.

Mrs. Wolfsheimer, who lives at No. 387 Washington street, said she saw Frank at this time.

Julian Loeb, No. 380 Washington street, testified to the same effect.

J. Cohen Loeb, No. 445 Washington street, told the jury he rode partway to town with Frank and that the defendant boarded the Washington street car at about 2 o'clock.

Miss Rebecca Carson, a factory employee, testified to seeing Frank on the street at 2:20 and also at 2:50.

Asks Women Be Excluded.

Solicitor Dorsey, before the jury was brought in, said he wanted to make a request that the mother and wife of Leo M. Frank be excluded from the court as the witnesses have been because of the outbreak of the elder Mrs. Frank Wednesday afternoon.

"I appreciate the feeling of the wife and mother," he said; "it is a terrible strain on them. I am sorry for them. But I must have protection and I think they should be excluded when we are subjected to outbreaks like that yesterday."

Attorney Arnold in reply said:

"Without criticising Mrs. Frank, I want to state that the Solicitor's examination of the witness yesterday was far worse than her outbreak. He was undertaking to get in evidence in an illegal way. He could not get it in a legal way. He was appealing to the crowd and to the feelings of the jury. Does you honor think that good practice—honorable practice—especially when a man is on trial for his life?

Arnold Calls Dorsey Overzealous.

"My friend is zealous—he is a little overzealous, I think, but that is not a matter for me to criticise. Your honor, our jury system is very lame if we admit this sort of evidence. They are good men, but simple men. It's hard for them to distinguish between things that condemn a man and things that prove him guilty. I won't say that the conduct of the Solicitor is illegal, but it is a little more culpable than the act of the mother. It's a pretty pass if a man's wife and mother are to be barred at the hour of his trial. This evidence of the State was put in to poison the minds of the jury. It was hard to bear—awfully hard to hear—but I promise it shall not occur again. We will do all we can to prevent a recurrence."

"Your honor, I didn't ask Mr. Jones all the questions I might have asked him," replied Dorsey. "You ruled the questions I did ask, were legal. I asked only questions I can substantiate by reputable witnesses, some of them high class women, I regard them.

"It's a mistaken idea bout me being overzealous. I am trying to do my duty. I want to protect myself and the court. You have excluded other women. There is no reason why these should be allowed to remain to offend the dignity of the court. An accused man should not be allowed to bankrupt his wife and mother. Mr. Arnold criticises my act. The courts have held it is highly improper for a lawyer to express his opinion on the evidence. Mr. Arnold has branded this evidence as lies before I put these good women on the stand."

Judge Roan ruled, after more arguing.

"You are entirely right, Mr. Dorsey, in saying that you are entitled to protection. Other women were put out because the evidence was of such a nature as to be indecent to be heard by them. It is a matter in the discretion or the court to state whether these ladies should be allowed to remain. I will say that if there are any more such outbreaks as yesterday I shall be forced to exclude them."

Mrs. Frank, the mother, and the prisoner's wife were both in court while the argument was in progress.

Girl Says She Saw Frank on Street at 1:10.

Miss Helen K. Curran was the first witness called. She is a very attractive looking girl, about 16 years old.

Q. Where do you live?—A. 160 Ashby street.

Q. After you took a course in shorthand, did you go to the National Pencil Company and meet Mr. Frank?—A. Yes.

Q. You were looking for a position?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you get it?—A. No.

Q. Why?—A. He was to let my father know, but I never heard from him.

Q. Where were you working April 26?—A. At the Bennett Printing House.

Q. What time did you get off that day?—A. Twelve o'clock.

Q. Where did you go?—A. Shopping.

Q. Did you have an appointment to meet another girl?—A. Yes. I was to meet Velma Turner at 1:15 o'clock at the corner of Alabama and Whitehall streets.

Q. Where were you about 1:05 o'clock?—A. I came out of Kress' store.

Q. Where did you go?—A. To Jacob's, corner Alabama and Whitehall.

Q. Did you see the defendant there?—After I had been there about five minutes I turned around and saw him.

Q. What time would you say that [words illegible]—A. About 1:10 o'clock.

Q. What was he doing?—A. Standing on the corner.

Hooper took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. Your father works at Montag's, doesn't he?—A. Yes.

Q. You told your father about seeing Frank, didn't you?—A. Yes.

Q. In that large crowd, Saturday, a holiday, you saw Mr. Frank?—A. It was not very crowded at that time.

Q. Didn't the parade come along then?—A. Not until about 3 o'clock.

Q. How long did you stand backed up against the wall there?—A. From five minutes after 1 until twenty after 1.

Q. You saw hundreds of people you recognized?—A. I saw a number.

Q. Did you speak to Mr. Frank?—A. No.

Q. How far were you from him?—A. About as far as I am now.

Q. What time did your friend come?—A. About 1:20 o'clock.

Q. Could you see Davis & Freeman's clock from where you were backed up against the wall?—A. I stepped out to look at it.

Q. Who else did you see while there?—A. My mother, father and brother.

Q. You went from Kress' at 1 o'clock?—A. Yes.

Q. Didn't you know that Kress' closed at 12 o'clock that day?—A. It did not; I was in there.

Q. How do you know so well what time it was?—A. I had an engagement at 1:15 o'clock and I was watching the clock.

Q. What time was it when you looked at the clock?—A. It was 1:05.

Can't Recall Anyone Else She Saw That Day.

Q. All the stores closed at 1 o'clock and great crowds were in the streets.—A. I don't know about any store but Kress'. I was in there.

Q. Give me the name of anyone you recognized on your way from Kress' to the corner?—A. I don't remember seeing anyone I recognized.

The witness was excused and Mrs. M. G. Michael, of Athens, Georgia, was put on the stand.

Q. Do you recall where you were last Memorial Day?—A. Atlanta.

Q. Where were you at 2 o'clock?—A. Mrs. Wolfsheimer's, my sister, No. 387 Washington street.

Q. Are you related to Frank?—A. His wife is my niece.

Q. Where did you see Frank that day?—A. At about 2 o'clock he was coming up Washington street.

Q. Where were you at that time?—A. On the porch of my sister's residence.

Q. Did he say anything?—A. Yes; he came up to the porch steps and talked to me.

Q. How do you know it was 2 o'clock?—A. My son had just left to go to the matinee.

Q. Did Frank appear nervous?—A. No.

Q. Did you see him again?—A. Sunday morning at his home.

Q. Did you notice anything out of the ordinary?—A. No.

Hooper took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. Where was he going when you saw him?—A. Toward Glenn and Washington streets.

Q. You are sure it was 2 o'clock?—A. Yes.

Q. Was it the custom for Frank to come in?—A. No, but this was the first time he had seen me since I arrived in Atlanta.

The witness was excused, and her son, Jerome Michael, was called. Arnold questioned him.

Q. What time did you see Frank Memorial Day?—A. Betwen 5 minutes to 2 and 2 o'clock at Mrs. Wolfsheimer's. I had an engagement with a young woman and was looking at my watch.

The witness testified to the same fact as his mother. Attorney Hooper took him on cross-examination and asked him if he were sure of the time, and upon receiving an affirmative answer he excused the witness.

Mrs. Albert P. Levy, No. 65 East Georgia avenue, was called, Arnold questioned her.

Q. Do you live opposite Mr. Frank?—A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall seeing him Memorial Day?—A. Yes.

Q. Where?—A. I was looking for my son who was coming to take me to the Grand Opera matinee, and I saw Mr. Frank get off the car at about 1:30 o'clock.

Looking For Son On That Car.

Q. You expected your son on that car?—A. Yes.

Hooper took the witness.

Q. You never heard of this crime until Tuesday?—A. Yes, I had heard of it.

Q. You did not think of it until several days afterward, did you?—A. No.

Q. Well, what made you recall seeing Frank? Was there anything unusual about his appearance?—A. No; I just know because I was constantly looking at the clock and at the cars.

Q. When did you first speak of this?—A. When the trouble first came up.

Q. Was anything said then of the time Frank was supposed to have committed this murder?—A. I don't think so.

Arnold took the witness.

Q. You said you reached your sick friend's home at 2:15 o'clock. Who was she?—A. Mrs. J. A. Hirsch.

The witness was excused, and Mrs. Hennie Wolfsheimer, No. 387 Washington street, was called. Arnold questioned her.

Q. Did you see Mr. Leo M. Frank Saturday, April 26?—A. Yes, about 2 o'clock. He came up to the steps of my house.

Q. You talked to him?—A. Yes; I don't think I was on the porch when he came up, but I came out immediately after he arrived.

Q. Did he appear nervous?—A. No.

Q. Did you notice any scratches on him?—A. No.

Hooper took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. What was it that made you remember the time so positively?—A. My husband was late for dinner.

The witness was excused, and Julian Loeb, of No. 380 Washington street, was called. Arnold questioned him.

Q. Is your residence next door to the Wolfsheimer residence?—A. It is across the street.

Q. Are you related to Mr. Frank?—A. No; I am a cousin of his wife's.

Q. Do you remember seeing Leo Frank April 26?—A. Yes; I saw him at the Wolfsheimer residence.

Q. You were there?—A. Yes.

Q. What time was it?—A. Between 1:30 and 2 o'clock.

Q. Do you remember anything he said?—A. He invited Mr. Michael and others to attend a meeting of the officers of the B'nai B'rith Society the following Sunday morning.

Hooper took the witness.

Q. There was no special reason for you to remember the time, was there?—A. Yes; I judged by the time I left the office where I am employed.

Says Conley Told Her He Was Drunk.

The witness was excused, and Miss Rebecca Carson, an employee of the National Pencil Company; was the next witness. She smiled and bowed to Frank as she took her seat. Arnold questioned her.

The witness said she was forelady of the assortment department on the fourth floor and had been there three years.

Q. How noticeable is that elevator to you on the fourth floor when it is running?—A. It is quite noticeable. There is a noticeable vibration and a knocking noise.

Q. Did you see Mr. Frank at any time or place on Saturday?—A. Yes, between 2:20 and 2:25 o'clock in front of Rich Brothers.

Q. What was he doing?—A. Looking at the parade.

Q. Did you speak to him?—A. I did.

Q. Did you see him any more that day?—A. Yes; about ten minutes to 3. I went down to Brown & Allen's corner just across the street and saw him going into Jacobs'.

Q. Did you see Jim Conley Monday morning?—A. I did.

Q. Did you say anything to him?—A. I asked him where he was on Saturday. He said, "Miss Rebecca, I was so drunk I didn't know where I was."

Q. Did you overhear any conversation between Jim Conley and your mother?—A. Yes. On Thursday the was sweeping. Mother said to him, "Well, Jim, I see they haven't got you yet." He said: "No, Missis, I ain't done nothing." She said: "No, and Mr. Frank hasn't either, but they took him." Conley said: "No, Missis, he's as innocent as an angel." Mother remarked: "Well, when they find out who murdered that little girl, it will be that negro Mrs. White saw sitting on the box back of the stairs." Jim dropped his broom and looked very scared.

Q. How long was this before Jim was arrested?—A. About an hour.

Q. What day was that?—A. Thursday.

Hooper took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. That was Monday when Jim Conley made the remark to you about him having been too drunk Saturday to know anything?—A. Yes.

Q. What time?—A. About 8 o'clock.

Q. When did you tell of that before?—A. To mother right away.

Q. You all work on the fourth floor?—A. Yes.

Q. That elevator makes very little noise?—A. It makes some noise.

Q. Could you hear it with those doors closed?—A. You might not.

Q. Where was that clock you saw the first time Memorial Day?—A. In front of the jewelry store.

Q. The other clock?—A. Above Kress' store.

Q. You looked at the clock both times before you saw him? Are you certain of the time?—A. Yes.

Q. The first time you noticed him. It was between 2:20 and 2:25 o'clock. How did you get that so certain?—A. My sister just asked me the time and it was only a short time later when I saw him.

Salary Not Raised Since Last January.

Q. How long have you been forelady?—A. About three years.

Q. Would you mind telling your salary?—A. $10 a week.

Q. Did you ever stay there Saturday afternoon?—A. No.

Q. Did you know Mr. Frank very well?—A. Only in a business way.

Q. When was your salary raise last?—A. January.

Q. Do you know whether Conley stayed there Saturday afternoon or not?—A. I heard he stayed there and I reckon he did.

Q. Conley told you right away he was so drunk he didn't remember where he was?—A. He certainly did.

Q. He came right out with it?—A. Yes.

Q. Did it make any impression on you?—A. Yes.

Q. Did you tell anyone else?—A. Mr. Darley and Mr. Rosser.

Q. Why did you tell Mr. Rosser?—A. He came to the factory and sent for some of the girls to tell them what we thought of Conley.

Q. You don't know what time Frank came out of Jacobs' drug store?—A. No.

Q. Did you see anything like blood in the factory?—A. No.

Q. You didn't go back there?—A. Not that day.

Q. When did you go back there?—A. Tuesday; I went back there with Mr. Frank.

Q. You didn't see the blood?—A. No, I wasn't looking for any.

Saw Frank on Way Down Town.

The witness was excused and Cohen Loeb, No. 445 Washington street, a brother of Julian Loeb, was called. Arnold questioned him.

Q. Do you remember seeing Leo Frank on Memorial Day, April 26?—A. Yes, on the trolley car comin' to town.

Q. Where did you get on the car?—A. At Georgia avenue.

Q. Where did he get on?—A. At Glenn street.

Q. Did you see him get on?—A. Yes, we sat together.

Q. Where did you go?—A. The car was blockaded at Hunter street by the crowds watching the parade. We got off.

Q. Where did he go?—A. Down Hunter street.

Q. What time was that?—A. I would say about 2:10 o'clock.

Hooper took the witness.

Q. Did you see anyone else that morning?—A. I saw Arthur Harris […]

Frank's Neighbors Tell of Seeing Him on Fatal Day as He Left Home

[…] and like Liebman pass in an automobile near the Capitol.

Q. You were sitting on the right side of the car?—A. Yes.

Q. Next to the window?—A. No; Mr. Frank was next to the window.

Q. Did you see Mr. Hinchey?—A. No, but I recognized his car.

Q. Do you know the number of his car?—A. No, but I recognized it by its dark color.

Q. How many dark-colored cars are there in the city?—A. Well, the street car struck this one and impressed it upon me. I found out later——

Hooper—Wait a minute. I am not asking what you found out later.

Arnold—Mr. Loeb, you found out later that it was Mr. Hinchey's car, did you not?—A. I did.

Hooper—I object.

Judge Roan sustained the objection.

Miss Carson was excused and Henry Smith, another employee of the pencil factory was called. Arnold questioned him.

Q. What department are you in?—A. Metal room.

Q. Do you know a man named Barnett?—A. Yes.

Q. Did he ever say anything about getting a reward if Frank was convicted?—A. Yes.

Q. What did he say about it?—A. He said he would get the first hook of about $4,300 because he found the blo[o]d and hair.

Q. Anything else?—A. Well, when he passed me he would play like he was counting money.

Hooper took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. Has he ever spent any of that imaginary money?—A. No.

The witness was excused and Charles Lee was called, but did not answer Harry Lewis, of No. 156 Underhill avenue, Brooklyn, took the stand.

Arnold questioned him.

Q. What is your business?—A. Practicing attorney.

Q. Were you ever in the District Attorney's office?—A. I was his assistant.

Q. Do you know Leo Frank?—A. Yes. I knew him when he lived next door to me.

Q. Do you know his general character?—A. Yes.

Q. Is it good or bad?—A. Very good.

The witness was excused without cross-examination.

Herbert Lasher, of Fleischman's, New York, was called. Arnold questioned him.

Q. What is your business?—A. I manage my father's establishment.

Q. Do you know Leo M. Frank?—A. Yes, I was with him at Cornell in 1903-4-5.

Q. Did you live with him?—A. Yes.

Q. Do you know his general character, and is it good or bad?—A. Very good.

The witness was excused.

Tells of Man Bleeding on Floor.

Charley Lee, No. 109 Washington street, was the next witness.

Arnold: "What is your business?"—A. I am machinist at the National Pencil Factory.

Q. Do you remember an accident to a fellow named Duffy in October 1912?—A. Yes.

Q. How was he hurt?—A. His finger was badly cut and bled freely. The blood spurted out.

Q. Where was he taken?—A. To Quinn's office.

Q. Did that take him by the water cooler near the ladies' dressing room?—A. Yes.

Q. Did he bleed there?—A. Yes.

Dorsey took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. How much do you get?—A. Thirty-two and one-half cents an hour.

Q. How long have you been getting that?—A. Two weeks.

Q. Who gave you the raise?—A. Mr. Darley.

Q. How large a raise?—A. Two and one-half cents.

Q. Have you talked about it to anyone?—A. No.

Q. Not to the lawyers in the case?—A. No.

Q. They didn't know what you were going to swear when you went on the stand?—A. No.

Q. How did they know about it?—A. I made a statement at the time.

Q. When did you see it last?—A. About two months ago.

Q. Who had it?—A. Mr. Schiff.

Q. Did he say anything?—A. He just wanted to know if I remembered it.

Q. Where did Duffy drop blood?—A. All along here (pointing to the diagram). It was just streaming down.

Q. Well, how large was the largest spot?—A. I couldn't say. It was just all over the floor.

Q. Did he stop anywhere?—A. Right there by the water cooler.

Q. How far from it?—A. About 2 or 4 feet.

Q. How long did he stop there?—A. About 8 or 10 minutes.

Saw Blood Drops on Floor.

Q. He just stood there with the blood dripping?—A. Yes.

Q. You were the only man who saw the accident?—A. Yes.

Q. You are the only one who saw him drop the blood there?—A. No; somebody else saw him.

Q. Who is your father?—A. Henry Lee.

Q. Where did this man stop and spill the blood?—A. In the office. Nowhere else.

Q. Did you see the spot where the blood was found?—A. I saw the spot after it was chipped up.

Q. Did this man Duffy stand at the same spot and drop blood from his fingers?—A. It might have been the same spot.

Q. Wasn't it the same spot?—A. It might have been a step away.

The witness was excused and Sig Montag, an officer of the National Pencil Company, was called to the stand. Rosser questioned him.

Q. How long have you lived in Atlanta?—A. About 25 years.

Q. What was your connection with the pencil factory on April 26?—A. I was treasurer.

Q. Did the mail come to your office?—A. Yes.

Q. Did Frank ever come to your office?—A. Yes.

Q. Did he come there Saturday, April 26?—A. Yes, about 10 o'clock.

Q. How long did he stay?—A. About an hour.

Q. What was your habit prior to twelve months ago about visiting the pencil factory?—A. I went there every Saturday afternoon.

Q. What did you find Frank doing on those Saturdays?—A. Working on the financial sheet.

Plan to Show Conley Lied About Watching.

Q. Mr. Montag, who occupied that first floor up to January 1?—A. The Clark Woodenware Company.

Q. What did the pencil company have to do with it?—A. Nothing, except as an entrance and to use the elevator.

Q. Where were the offices of the woodenware company?—A. In the front of the building.

The defense regards this evidence as extremely important to show that Conley lied about watching for Frank at the front door. They showed by Montag that the pencil company had nothing to do with this floor except as an entrance.

The model of the factory was again brought in to demonstrate the witness' statement.

Rosser—Let's take Sunday morning. Have you a telephone at your home?—A. Yes, about 20 feet from my bed.

Q. Were you aroused by the telephone Sunday morning?—A. No, but my wife was, and she told me someone wanted to speak to me.

Q. What did the voice say?—A. A man wanted to know if I could identify a girl who had been killed in the factory. I referred him to Mr. Darley, who then and now has charge of the help.

Q. Did Mr. Frank come to your home?—A. Yes.

Q. Did he tell you of what had happened and that he had been roused out of bed without any breakfast?Dorsey—I object to that.

Judge Roan—You can bring out the fact that the witness talked with him, but not what he said.

A. Yes, he told me about him.

Q. Was he nervous?—A. No more nervous that I was when he explained to me what had happened.

Dorsey—I must object again. That is irrelevant.

The objection was sustained.

Q. Was Mr. Frank nervous?—A. Yes; naturally he was nervous in telling of this terrible crime.

Q. Were you nervous?—A. I was.

Q. How did your wife take the news?—A. She was very much agitated and cried.

Q. Did you have a good opportunity for observing Frank? Where was he when he told you of the tragedy?—A. He was in my sitting room and I had a good opportunity of observing him.

Q. Were there any scratches on his face or spots on his clothes?—A. There were not.

Q. Did you go to the factory?—A. I did.

Q. Did you make an examination of the factory?—A. I made a general examination.

Q. Were there any accidents when you used the building the pencil factory is in?—A. Yes, a great many.

Q. Where were the injured people taken?—A. To the front office.

Q. They would have to go down those stairs, wouldn't they?—A. Yes.

Q. When did you hear of Frank being taken to headquarters by the police?—A. Monday.

Calls Frank's Acquaintance Limited.

Q. You have known Frank for a good while. Was his acquaintance large or limited?—A. I would call it limited.

Q. Knowing he had a limited acquaintance, what did you do?—A. I called Mr. Haas, my personal friend.

Q. What did he do?—A. He went to the police station to see Frank. Mr. Haas came back and said he couldn't see Frank.

Dorsey—I object. Are you going to let that go in?

Judge Roan—Yes, it explains the conduct of this man.

Q. Well, what did you do then?—A. Mr. Haas telephoned Mr. Rosser.

Q. What time was that?—A. 11 or 12 o'clock.

Q. What time did he get there?—A. About 40 minutes later.

Judge Roan at this point read to Mr. Dorsey the rule that made this evidence admissible.

Q. You don't know what happened upstairs?—A. No.

Q. How long before Frank left was it after I got there?—A. You got there about 40 or 50 minutes after, Mr. Rosser.

Q. Who was with him?—A. Detective Black and Mr. Haas.

Q. You receive those financial sheets, don't you?—A. Yes.

Q. What time did you get it that Monday?—A. About 2 o'clock.

Q. Was that financial sheet brought you before or after you got that message about detectives?—A. After.

Q. Who called you?—A. Mr. Schiff. He wanted to know whether I would sanction the employment of detectives and I told him certainly.

Q. Did you give any instructions?—A. Yes. I told him to give the authorities every assistance.

Q. Did you know that Miss Hall, the stenographer, anticipated the raise in her salary before the murder?—A. I don't employ the stenographer and would not have known.

Frank's Friends Not Around Police Station.

Dorsey took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. Mr. Montag, you said Frank had a limited acquaintance in the city?—A. Yes.

Q. In this patent litigation with the American Pencil Company he came in contact with a number of attorneys, did he not?—A. Yes.

Q. He was president of the B'nai B'rith Society and came in contact with lots of people in that organization, did he not?—A. Yes, he came in contact with the members, I suppose. I never went to the meetings.

Q. How many members are there?—A. Four or five hundred.

Q. What did you mean by telling the jury he had a limited acquaintance?—A. I meant the people he knew would not be around the police station.

Q. Did Frank ask for a lawyer?—A. No.

Q. Did he ask for the Pinkertons?—A. I only know what Mr. Schiff said.

Q. Did he explain to you why he was nervous?—A. Yes, he said they took him into a dark room and suddenly turned a light on the girl's body.

Q. Did he say he saw the body?—A. He described it.

Q. What did he say?—A. He said her face was scratched, her eye bruised, and her tongue out. I don't remember anything else.

Q. You can't remember all of it?—A. I said I couldn't remember all. Now do not twist what I say.

Arnold—He will if you don't watch him.

Dorsey—I submit that the remark of Attorney Arnold is improper and should be stricken from the record. It is untrue.

Judge Roan—I sustain you.

Charges Dorsey With Heckling Witnesses.

Arnold—It is true and proper and I call for the records to sustain me. The whole trouble is that the Solicitor quarrels with the witnesses instead of cross-examining them.

Dorsey—All I want is for your honor to rule him out of order.

Judge Roan—I have, Mr. Dorsey, go on. Let's not be interrupted by quarreling.

Q. Did you mention to him the fact that he was nervous?—A. No.

Q. Did he say anything about being asked to go to police headquarters?—A. No.

Q. Who made the trade about paying the attorney?—A. I don't know.

Q. You didn't agree to pay Mr. Rosser's fee?—A. No.

Q. No part of it?—A. No.

Q. All you agreed to pay was the Pinkertons?—A. Yes.

Q. Have they been paid?

Rosser—I object to that, your honor.

Dorsey—Your honor, I want to show that these people have made frequent demands for their money and have not gotten it. I want to show the bias on the part of this witness.

Judge Roan—You can ask it.

Q. Have the Pinkertons been paid?—A. No.

Q. Have they asked for the money?—A. No, but they sent two or three bills.

Q. You haven't paid them, have you?—A. No.

Q. You got a report from the Pinkertons daily, didn't you?—A. Practically.

Q. Now, when did you hear about the finding of the stick?—A. When I read it in the report.

Read First of Stick Being Found.

Q. Now, did you tell Mr. Pierce, of the Pinkertons, not to report the finding of the stick and envelope to the police?—A. I did not.

Q. When was there any accident in the National Pencil Factory?—A. There was one big accident about a year ago. A man by the name of Gilbert got his head burst.

Q. Do you remember any other?—A. Not definitely.

Q. Why do you remember this one?—A. It was a very bad accident.

Q. You say Frank brought you the financial sheet Monday afternoon after the murder?—A. He did.

Q. How long after this tragedy was it that the insurance company made you clean up that factory?—A. Some time within the week.

Q. When did you pay for it?—A. I don't remember. The records in my office will show that.

Q. You were in the factory on June 14 with a number of detectives, were you not?—A. I don't remember the day.

Q. Did you telephone the residences of W. D. Brown, a livery stable man, on the afternoon of April 26 that you wanted a horse and buggy?—A. I did not.

At this time court adjourned until 2 o'clock.

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