Tuesday, 19th August 1913: Attacks Frank’s Time Alibi, The Atlanta Georgian

Reading Time: 62 minutes, [10437 words]

WITNESS SAYS HE SAW MARY PHAGAN ABOUT NOON OF TRAGIC DAY

Here are the important developments Tuesday in the trial of Leo M. Frank, charged with the murder of Mary Phagan:

Judge Roan rules out all testimony bearing on particular acts of immorality which the State has been endeavoring to prove against the defendant.

Will Turner, former pencil factory employee, testifies he entered the metal room shortly before noon one day near the middle of March and saw Frank seeking to engage Mary Phagan in conversation. He says he cannot recall any other person he (Turner) knew in the factory.

Solicitor Dorsey devotes large part of forenoon in an endeavor to bolster the character of C. B. Dalton, a State's witness, and tear down that of Miss Daisy Hopkins, who was called by the defense.

George Gordon, called by the Solicitor, swears that the sensational affidavit of Minola Mc Knight, negro cook at the Selig home, was signed in his absence and that Solicitor Dorsey refused to order her release, saying he "would get in bad with the detectives" if he did.

Roy Craven and E. H. Pickett, hardware store employees, testified Minola Mc Knight, cook in the Selig home, made the affidavit revealing incriminating remarks and actions of Frank without reserve.

Miss Nellie Wood says she does not know Frank's general character after the Judge has barred sensational questions which the Solicitor proposed to put. The Solicitor says the witness "entrapped" him.

M. E. Mc Coy, a painter, created a stir in the courtroom Tuesday afternoon by testifying that he saw Mary Phagan on Forsyth street at about three or four minutes after 12 o'clock on the Saturday she was killed.

Attorney Rosser made Mc Coy admit that he had not told of this circumstance until about a week and a half ago, although the time element had been a vital factor for several months and the city had been scoured for persons who saw the girl on the fatal day.

Leo Frank's mother and his wife left the courtroom Tuesday afternoon as Solicitor Dorsey was outlining to the court what he proposed to prove by Miss Nellie Wood, the witness on the stand.

The Solicitor made a determined effort to get into the record and before the jury testimony against Frank's character, but, as was the case at the morning session, he was overruled.

"We wish to show by the witness, your honor," said Dorsey, "the general character of this defendant, as well as to get before the jury a specific instance in which this young woman, who worked two days on the fourth floor of the National Pencil Factory, figured."

When Judge Roan overruled this line of questioning, the Solicitor declared he had another witness to testify to an occasion when he saw Frank with a woman in the factory. The judge said the law plainly barred the questions.

Miss Wood was asked if she knew Frank's general character. She replied that she did not. Dorsey claimed he had been trapped, as his talk with the witness was exactly to the contrary.

Charges Sideboard Was Moved.

Attorney Frank A. Hooper made the charge Tuesday afternoon that the mirror in the dining room at the Selig home had been moved for the express purpose of discrediting the testimony of Albert Mc Knight, who swore that he was in the Selig home the afternoon of April 26 and saw Frank hurriedly enter the dining room, go to the sideboard and then leave the house without stopping to eat.

Mc Knight was on the stand at the time, having been recalled to testify as to the place he was sitting when he saw Frank through the mirror. He designated the place and then corroborated Hooper's charge by his declaration that the mirror had been moved around several feet.

Roy Craven, one of the Beck & Gregg Hardware employees, who assisted the police in obtaining the sensational affidavit from Minola Mc Knight, negro cook at the Selig home, declared on the stand in the Frank trial Tuesday afternoon that the Mc Knight woman made her statements against Frank of her own accord and without reserve, once she had been persuaded it was best to tell what the State says is the whole truth.

Craven said the Mc Knight woman told him that she had heard conversations at the Selig home Sunday morning following the murder of Mary Phagan, indicating that Frank had rested poorly and had come home intoxicated, making his wife sleep on the floor. He had asked his wife for a revolver to shoot himself, the Mc Knight woman said, according to Craven. Frank also was

Continued on Page 2, Column 1.

PAGE 12, COLUMN 1

NEGRO M'KNIGHT SAYS SIDEBOARD WAS MOVED

Continued from Page 1.

reported to have remarked that he "didn't know why he would murder."

E. H. Pickett, a fellow employee of Craven's, corroborated the latter's story and added that the Mc Knight woman had admitted getting more money after the murder than she had before.

Both Pickett and Craven were sharply questioned by Attorney Rosser, who sought to show that Minola signed the statement to obtain her freedom from jail.

Dr. S. C. Benedict, president of the State Board of Health, was called at the opening of the afternoon to show that charges of scientific dishonesty against Dr. H. F. Harris, secretary of the board, never were found to be well founded. Dr. W. F. Westmoreland asserted on the stand that Dr. Harris had been found guilty of the charges.

By far the most damaging testimony brought out against Frank was that of Will Turner, who testified that he had entered the metal room and come upon Frank seeking to press his attentions upon the Phagan girl only a few weeks before the crime.

When Turner was put under the raking fire of Luther Rosser's cross-examination, the weight of his testimony suffered considerably. The youth, who admitted he had worked at the factory only a brief time, was unable to describe Mary Phagan and was unable to tell the name of any other girl in the entire factory.

"I went into the rear room on the second floor one day with some pencils," said Turner. "It was about the middle of March. Frank was walking from his office toward the rear of the factory. Mary Phagan was coming toward her machine. He told her to wait a minute, that he wanted to talk to her. She said she had to go to work.

"He said: 'I'm superintendent of the pencil factory and I want to talk to you.' She repeated that she had to go to work and he followed her as she backed away from him. A couple of girls came into the room and I asked them where to put the pencils and then I left. I didn't see any more."

On cross-examination young Turner admitted he did not know whether there were other girls around at the time or not. He did not know the names of the two girls, he said, who entered the room while Frank was trying to talk to Mary Phagan. The extent of his description of Mary Phagan was that she had light hair. The question of the admissibility of this evidence caused a long wrangle between the attorneys.

Rosser and Arnold objected on the ground that it was not at all material, proving absolutely nothing. They denied Dorsey's contention that it established that Frank had known Mary Phagan, in spite of his declarations that he did not know her. The lawyers said that it did not show that he knew her by name or that he was conversing with her on any other subject than her work.

"We contend that Mary Phagan was killed right on that second floor," retorted the Solicitor. "We contend that Mary Phagan and Frank were the only persons in the metal department at the time that this incident took place, and that she was backing away and protesting that she had to go back to work. We contend that it was the beginning of the transaction which ended in the little girl's death. It should go in as contradicting Frank's statement that he did not know her."

Turner was allowed to tell his story.

That Solicitor Dorsey refused to take any step toward the liberation of Minola Mc Knight, cook at the Selig home, who was imprisoned until she made her sensational affidavit against Frank, on the ground that it would "get him in bad with the detectives," was the unexpected and interesting statement made by Attorney George Gordon late in the forenoon session.

Gordon was called by the State, but proved as good a witness for the defense. He declared that the affidavit made by the cook was signed in his absence, although the last paragraph stated that it was signed in his presence.

He said that he had told Solicitor Dorsey that the negro woman was being held illegally, but that the Solicitor had replied that it was necessary sometimes to do things of this sort in order to get the information wanted. He told of going to the police station and finding Minola crying and hysterical in her cell.

The attorney for the colored woman said that he had not been permitted to enter the room where his client was being interrogated by the detectives and Ray Pickett and Arthur Craven, the latter two being employees of the Beck & Gregg Hardware Company. He was present, he said, when part of the notes were being read by G. C. Febuary, but was not there when the affidavit was signed.

The Mc Knight affidavit told of alleged conversations at the Selig home of a nature very incriminating to Frank. The Mc Knight woman denied all of the statements in the affidavit to a Georgian reporter the night that she was liberated.

A crushing blow was dealt the State by the refusal of Judge Roan to admit, either while the defense was completing its case or after the State had taken up the rebuttal, any evidence not directly and at first hand bearing upon the specific acts charged against the factory superintendent.

The ruling was a sweeping victory for the defense. It gave Frank's case, which had been aided materially the day before by the defendant's own statement, an added strength and heightened the prospects in Frank's favor.

Solicitor Dorsey tried first to cross-question Daisy Hopkins, one of the defense's witnesses, as to conversations she was supposed to have had in regard to incidents at the pencil factory in which she and a man undesignated except as her "foreman" were involved. Frank's name was not mentioned in the indicated charges. The conversation was about a "foreman."

The Hopkins woman denied again that she ever had made visits to the factory for improper purposes or that she had had the conversations referred to by the Solicitor.

Dorsey encountered the same stone wall when he tried to draw testimony against the moral character of Frank from his own witnesses. From W. P. Merck and J. P. Floyd the Solicitor had expected to obtain a recital of the stories of happenings which they said had been related to them.

Merck, however, had mysteriously disappeared from the courthouse when his name was called, and Floyd was not permitted to go into the details of the testimony the Solicitor had hoped to bring out.

The Solicitor thereafter confined his efforts to bolstering up the character of C. B. Dalton, the State's witness who testified to seeing women in Frank's office, and attacking that of Daisy Hopkins. He called a number of witnesses, one of them a cousin of the Hopkins woman, who swore that her character for truth and veracity was bad and that they wouldn't believe her on oath.

Swear Dalton's Character Is Good.

Other witnesses testified that Dalton's character was good. They were asked by Attorney Rosser if they were acquainted with his court and chaingang record. They replied, for the most part, that they were not.

The brown suit worn by Frank April 26 was identified by Mrs. Emil Selig, his mother-in-law, at the opening of court in the forenoon and the suit was placed in evidence.

The defense prepared to show by Wiley Roberts, inside jailer at the Tower, that Jim Conley had been reading since his incarceration there, but the Solicitor objected on the ground that no basis had been laid for the testimony.

Daisy Hopkins then was called and questioned, after which the State began its rebuttal, the defense having closed its case.

While waiting for a witness Solicitor Dorsey arose and made the unexpected announcement that he himself had erased the identification "Taken out at 8:26" on the time slip taken from the clock in the factory. Frank had made the charge he had written words as an identification of the slip and that they had been erased. The Solicitor declared that he thought the detectives had made the identification.

"Frank did not know who made the erasure," said Attorney Reuben Arnold.

The Solicitor had announced earlier that his first witnesses in rebuttal would be called to support C. B. Dalton and impeach Daisy Hopkins, who declared she had never visited the factory with Dalton or that he had ever introduced Dalton to the factory superintendent.

Wiley Roberts was asked:

Q. Has Jim Conley been in your custody during this trial? A. Yes.

Q. Has he ever asked for newspapers? A. Yes.

Dorsey interrupted.

"Your honor," he said, "I think the witness, Jim Conley, ought to have the privilege of denying or affirming that before he can be impeached."

"Conley said that he could only read certain words," said Arnold, "but probably Mr. Dorsey is right. I will have to call Jim Conley back again. Mr. Rosser will be back in a minute and we will close."

Daisy Hopkins Is Recalled by Dorsey.

The witness was excused and Dorsey made the announcement that four doctors of the following five would be called by the prosecution:

Drs. G. C. Mizell, F. L. Eskridge, Clarence Johnson, John Funke, S. E. Benedict, of Athens, and J. C. Cramer, of Macon, the latter two president and vice president of the State Board of Health.

Solicitor Dorsey asked that Daisy Hopkins be returned to the stand so that he might continue his cross-examination of her.

The witness took the stand.

Q. You say you knew nothing of the cot in the basement of the National Pencil Factory? A. No.

Q. Do you know anything at all of the basement? A. No.

Q. Are you acquainted with A. R. Floyd, of Redan, Ga.? A. Yes.

Q. Have you known him for a long time? A. Yes.

Q. Have you had a conversation with Floyd since the murder? A. No.

Q. Haven't you been to his house to get milk? A. I don't think I have since the murder.

Q. Didn't you go to the home of Floyd to get milk and tell him about that cot in the basement of the National Pencil Factory? A. No.

Q. Do you know Bob Goddard? A. Yes.

Q. Do you know Dr. R. S. Pound, of Redan? A. Yes.

Q. Do you know Mr. Smith, superintendent of the Nunnally-Mc Rae Company? A. On Mitchell street?

Q. Yes. A. Yes, I know him.

Q. Do you know Walter P. Merck? A. Where does he live?

Met Merck on

Peachtree Street.

Q. You met him first at Stone Mountain, then you met him on Walker street? A. I met him at Redan. They used to live down there.

Q. You said something about being married. Have you two living husbands? A. No; only one.

Q. Have you seen him since the murder? A. Yes; at Redan.

Q. Do you remember meeting Walter P. Merck one Saturday afternoon on Whitehall street? A. I met him on Peachtree.

Q. Didn't you tell him that afternoon that you were going to the National Pencil Factory? A. No; I told him I had just left the factory.

Q. Didn't he make an engagement with you to go to the factory? A. No.

Rosser objected, declaring that a female witness could not be attacked in that way.

"Your honor," said Dorsey, "I want to show by Merck that this woman did make an engagement with him that afternoon."

"I understand," replied Rosser, "that when an argument of this kind is to be made the jury is to retire."

"It would be better to have the ladies retire also," said Dorsey. "I don't want to embarrass them."

Jury and Women Retire From Room.

The jury retired, and after a hurried conference, Frank's wife and mother also left the courtroom at the request of Attorney Arnold.

"This is their witness," said Dorsey. "We want to show that this man Merck had her Saturday afternoon, and she said she was going to the National Pencil Factory. It was cold weather. We want to show that he saw her that night and what she told him."

The witness interrupted:

"It was summer time," she said pertly.

"She has denied," said Dorsey, "in the impeachment of Dalton that she ever went to the pencil factory for any improper purpose."

"We object," said Rosser.

"I want to show that she told Merck about meeting her foreman at the factory," said Dorsey.

Then the Solicitor repeated a conversation involving the "foreman," which is unprintable, which he wanted to get before the jury.

"He does not mean to charge Frank is the foreman," said Arnold. "He is frank enough to state that."

"Merck in an affidavit," said Dorsey, "said foreman. He didn't say Mrs. Hopkins said her superintendent or that she named any names. I mean to let the jury draw its own conclusions."

"I knew when your honor refused to rule out the charges of Conley and Dalton," said Arnold, taking up the argument, "that you were opening the doors for new issues that would obscure the charge of murder. I knew it would lead to a situation in impeachments bringing us to the point where we would hardly know who we were trying. This woman never would have been put up as an original witness except for the aspersions cast on her by Conley and Dalton. Look how far afield we have wandered. Now, he wants to impeach this witness on something with which the defendant has no connection."

"You can rebut any of their direct testimony," said Judge Roan. "You can not bring any new criminal charge against this defendant. If it is against someone else, it is irrelevant."

"Your honor," said Dorsey, "I want to ask a question to let the jury hear that you rule it out."

"No; we object," said Rosser. "That's just why the jury was sent out."

"I'll let you assume that you ask it," said the court to Dorsey.

"Why, your honor," replied Dorsey, "it puts us in the position of not even trying to prove what we have indicated we would."

"I can not permit the question," said Judge Roan.

"Very well," said Dorsey, adding, in an undertone, "That shuts me off; that shuts me off."

Dorsey continued the examination:

Q. Didn't you meet Merck during the afternoon after working hours and tell him you were going to the pencil factory? A. No.

Q. Didn't he come to see you that night? A. No.

Q. Didn't you tell him that you had been to the factory that afternoon? A. No.

Men Say Woman's Character Is Bad.

Miss Hopkins was excused, and J. R. Floyd, of Redan, Ga., was called. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Do you know Daisy Hopkins? A. Yes.

Q. Do you know how many husbands she has?

Rosser: "I object, your honor. I don't care if she has three hundred husbands."

The objection was sustained.

Q. Would you believe her under oath? A. I would not.

Q. Did you ever hear her say anything about a cot in the basement of the pencil factory? A. Yes.

The witness was excused. Bob Goddard, brother of C. M. Goddard, who was shot to death a few months ago by Elmer F. Darden, was the next witness called in rebuttal. Goddard resides near Redan. Dorsey questioned him.

Goddard testified to the bad character of Daisy Hopkins, and declared he would not believe her under oath.

Henry Carr, of Stone Mountain; N. J. Ballard, a second cousin of Daisy Hopkins, and J. L. Rice all followed each other in rapid succession and testified that they would not believe the Hopkins girl under oath.

Dorsey then addressed the court. "Your honor," he said, "we want to offer indictments against Daisy Hopkins and also a bond forfeiture."

Rosser: "Your honor, they objected to the introduction of an indictment against Dalton and they objected rightly. An indictment is nothing against one's character."

Dorsey: "Dalton denied any knowledge of an indictment. This is a bond forfeiture."

Judge Roan: "I rule it out."

Dalton's Recent Past Good, Says J. T. Hearn.

Glenn Smith, superintendent of the Nunnally-Mc Rae Company, testified that Daisy Hopkins' character was bad and that he would not believe her on oath.

J. T. Hearn, of Walton County, said he had known C. B. Dalton since 1890. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Is his character good or bad? A. The first part of his life was bad. The last part has been good.

Q. Would you believe him on oath? A. Yes.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. When was the last time you knew Dalton? A. 1903 or 1904.

Q. Did you hear about him being indicted for selling whisky in 1906? A. Yes, but he had joined the church about 1904 and I understood was leading a good life.

Dorsey took the witness.

Q. Do you know the instance of his being indicted for stealing years ago? A. Yes.

Rosser: "We object. He can't go into that."

Judge Roan sustained the objection.

Dorsey: "When they go into specific acts, can't I?"

Judge Roan: "No."

R. V. Johnston, another Walton County citizen, was called. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. When were you approached in regard to testifying to the character of C. B. Dalton?

Rosser interposed with an objection, but was overruled.

A. Last Friday, a week ago.

Q. Who approached you? A. Harry Gottheimer.

Rosser again objected, and was sustained.

Q. Are you acquainted with the character of C. B. Dalton? A. Yes.

Q. Would you believe him on oath? A. I would.

Rosser took the witness.

Q. You never heard that he was indicted for stealing and selling whiskey? A. No.

The witness was excused, and W. M. Cook, of Social Circle, Ga., a dairyman and farmer, testified as to Dalton's good character, and declared that he would believe him on oath.

W. J. Elder, of Decatur, followed Cook on the stand, and said that Dalton came to Decatur about five years ago and worked for him as a carpenter. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Are you acquainted with Dalton's general character? A. I don't know as I am.

Q. That means what people say about him? A. Yes.

Q. Is his character good or bad? A. Good.

Rosser took the witness.

Q. Why did you say just now that you didn't know? A. I didn't know as I did.

Q. You said you didn't know because you didn't know yourself? A. Yes.

The witness was excused, and A. B. Houston, of Decatur, a farmer, who has lived there 21 years, was called. The witness said that he had known Dalton for eight years and that his character was good and that he would believe him under oath.

J. T. Borne, who formerly lived at Ingleside, in De Kalb County, and who now operates a cigar and soda fountain at Decatur, said he knew Dalton and would believe him on oath.

W. M. Wright, of Atlanta, general manager of the Independent Transfer Company, testified in behalf of Dalton's good character and declared that he would believe him on oath.

W. C. Hale, of No. 88 Kirkwood avenue, Atlanta, formerly of Walton County, testified to Dalton's good character and said he would believe him under oath.

L. L. Boyce, a city policeman, formerly of Walton County, testified that eighteen or twenty years ago Dalton's character was bad, but that now it was better and that he had heard nothing bad about him recently.

M. Gordon Caldwell, of Atlanta; J. W. Hunt, of No. 18 Trinity avenue, and W. P. Patrick, of Atlanta, a member of the police force, testified to Dalton's good character and said that they would believe him under oath.

J. E. Dudley, a former employee of the pencil company, was called to the stand. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Were you working at the National Pencil Factory about October 1912? A. I don't remember.

Q. Do you remember a machinist named Charley Lee? A. Yes, he was working there.

Q. Were you hurt there? A. Yes.

Q. Where? A. On the second floor, the office floor.

Q. Just where were you hurt? A. On a metal machine. I hurt the forefinger of my left hand.

Mashed Finger But Kept Blood Off Floor.

Q. How were you hurt? A. This fellow Lee had put the metal on the machine. It dropped off. I picked it up and in putting it back I mashed my finger.

Q. What did you do then? A. There was some cotton waste there, which I put around my hand.

Q. Did any blood drop on the floor? A. A few drops.

Q. Did any blood drop near the ladies' dressing room? A. None.

Q. How long after this accident did you work? A. I quit then.

Q. What does this fellow Lee do besides working at his trade? A. I don't know.

Q. What did you do then? A. I went to the office to get it dressed, then went to the Atlanta Hospital.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. How badly were you hurt? A. Not very bad.

Q. You bled pretty freely? A. Yes, but I had my hand in the cotton waste.

Q. You didn't notice whether any blood was on the floor or not? A. Yes; none of it dropped except at the machine where I was working.

Dorsey took the witness.

Q. Was your finger outside of the cotton waste until you got to the office? A. No.

The witness was excused, and the witness Merck was called, but failed to answer. Willie Turner, of Sandy Springs, the 16-year-old son of E. M

Continued on Page 4, Column 1.

PAGE 14, COLUMN 1

FACTORY BOY SWEARS HE SAW FRANK ACCOST MARY PHAGAN

Dorsey Feared He'd 'Get in Bad' With Detectives, State Witness Says

INDIRECT TESTIMONY AGAINST PRISONER IS FORBIDDEN BY JUDGE

Continued from Page 2.

Turner, a farmer, was called to the stand. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. About March, of this year, where did you work? A. At the pencil factory.

Q. Do you know this man? (pointing to Frank) A. Yes.

Q. Did you know Mary Phagan? A. When I saw her.

Q. Did you ever see Mr. Frank talking to Mary Phagan? A. Yes; on the second floor.

Q. What time was it and how long before the murder? A. About the middle of March.

Q. Where was it? A. In the back part of the building.

Q. What time of day was it? A. Just before dinner.

Q. Who was in the room besides them? A. No one else. Two girls came down after I did.

Q. What was said? A. I heard her say she had to go to work.

Q. What did he say? A. He said he was the superintendent of the factory-".

Rosser: "We object and we want to argue this without the jury."

The jury was sent out.

Dorsey-Let the witness tell what it is.

Turner-Mr. Frank told the girl he was superintendent of the factory and wanted to talk to her. She told him she had to go back to work. Mr. Frank then went off.

Mary Backed Away From Frank.

Q. How was she acting? A. She backed off from him and he walked toward her.

Q. How far did she back? A. Three or four feet. That was all I heard. Mr. Frank turned away.

Judge Roan-You can go into this to this extent. You can show whether he knew Mary Phagan.

Rosser-This brother has nothing to do with it.

Hooper-If my brother will just keep still a little bit, we may be able to proceed further. This has another value. It shows familiarity or a desire for familiarity.

Rosser-If your honor is with us, I don't want to argue.

Judge Roan-The question is whether it can be shown just how this conversation took place.

Rosser-That is not the purpose of this evidence--

Hooper-Your honor--Judge Roan-Sit down, Mr. Hooper. The question is whether this will show whether he knew her well enough to know her name.

Rosser-This evidence doesn't show that.

Dorsey-Your honor, this witness says this meeting occurred in the same place and near the same spot where we have contended the murder occurred. It is the basis for further evidence.

Arnold-That last statement let the cat out of the bag. They want to bring out another charge. This whole case has been beclouded with every charge that could be imagined. We have gotten away from the charge of murder and have been made to answer every conceivable charge.

Hooper-I object to that, first because it is not true and second because it is not the point at issue.

There was smothered applause.

"There is another disturbance of some sort," shouted Arnold.

Judge Roan rapped for order and directed that the jury be brought in. He addressed Solicitor Dorsey.

"You may put your question and let him tell what he knows," said Judge Roan.

Q. What did you see? Tell it in your own way, telling everything that you saw. A. They were back in the rear of the building near the entrance. She was coming to her work just before dinner. Mr. Frank met her and said: 'I want to speak to you.' She said: 'I have got to go to work.' He said: "I am the superintendent of the pencil factory and I want to speak to you.' She backed off and he walked toward her.

Q. Is that all? A. Yes.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. What time was it? A. Just before dinner.

Q. How was it she was just going to work? A. She was returning to her work at the machine. It was just before the whistle blew.

Q. Lemmie Quinn's office was there, wasn't it? A. Yes.

Q. There were ten or twelve women there in the polishing department? A. I don't know.

Q. Well, what about those two girls in there? A. They came back and told me where to put the pencils.

Q. Do you know who they were? A. No.

Motorman Hits Daisy Hopkins' Character.

Q. They came back at the time this thing was going on? A. Yes.

Q. What kind of a looking girl was Mary Phagan? A. She had light hair.

Q. What else? A. I can't describe her.

Q. Do you really know her? A. Yes.

Q. How? A. Some boy who worked on the fourth floor pointed her out to me one morning when she came to work.

Q. Do you know any one else at the factory? A. No.

The witness was excused and Walter T. Merck was called.

Dorsey questioned him.

Q. What is your business? A. A street car motorman.

Q. Do you know Daisy Hopkins? A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever meet her on Saturday afternoons at the corner of Whitehall and Alabama streets? A. Yes.

Q. What did she say? A. I asked her where she was going and she said she was going to the pencil factory.

Q. Did you see her any more? A. Yes. I made an engagement to go to her room.

Q. Did you see her? A. Yes, about 8:30 o'clock in a room upstairs at the corner of Walker and Peters streets.

Q. Did she say where she had been? A. To the National Pencil Factory.

Q. Do you know her character? A. Yes.

Q. Is it good or bad? A. Bad.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. Does the company know your character? It's a beauty according to your own admission, isn't it?

Dorsey interposed with an objection and was sustained.

Rosser: "Come down, come down, come down."

Mc Knight Woman's

Lawyer Called.

The witness was excused, and George Gordon, who said he had practiced law for thirteen years, was called to the stand. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Were you present at the police station when Minola Mc Knight was brought there? A. Yes; or, rather, I was on the outside a part of the time. I went there in connection with getting a habeas corpus proceedings for her release. The detectives told me I could not go in just then. I decided to make a demand to see her, and it was granted. I went in and Stenographer Febuary read a statement to her from his notes, then went out to write it. Detectives Starnes, Campbell and Lanford, Chief Beavers and two men from Beck & Greggs' were there when the stenographer went out. I said that I didn't think that she ought to be held. They told me they could do nothing unless I got your (Dorsey's) permission. So I went to see you, and you told me that you could not let the woman go, because it would put you in bad with the detectives.

Q. Didn't I say that I had no right to hold her? A. No; you said you would not release her without a habeas corpus.

Q. Why did you not wait until she signed that paper? A. I went up to see you.

Q. Did you hear her say anything about the statement? Read over the notes and then answer the question. A. That is the substance of the notes that Febuary read over to her.

Q. What did she say? Did she deny or admit them? A. She said she believed that was about right.

Dorsey Feared He'd

"Get in Bad."

Q. I told you I didn't have anything to do with locking her up, and that it would be meddling for me to order her release. A. You said you would not interfere because you would get in bad with the detectives. That is what my recollection is, Mr. Dorsey.

Rosser took the witness.

Q. You knew that she had been to Mr. Dorsey's office and had been taken away screaming? A. Yes; I heard that.

Q. That Mr. Dorsey, an officer of the peace, let the police take that woman away screaming?

Dorsey interrupted. "You say you know that?" he asked the witness.

Rosser: "Wait until I get through." Then he continued his question.

Q. Did you ever find out what charge they had against her? A. I had a habeas corpus to get her release, but could not get to her.

Q. They just held her because she would not give a statement to the police that Mr. Dorsey wanted?

Dorsey interposed an objection.

Rosser-I submit to this jury that the evidence in this case proves it is true.

Dorsey-I submit it is not true, I don't care what you argue to this jury.

Dorsey-I didn't do anything to that negro woman.

Judge Sustains

Dorsey's Objection.

Judge Roan sustained Dorsey's objection. Rosser asked Dorsey for the affidavit that Minola made in Dorsey's office. He asked the witness if he had ever seen it before, and the witness answered, "No."

Q. Who was guilty of false imprisonment-was it Starnes or Beavers? A. Beavers said he knew about it, but that he could not let her out unless Dorsey ordered it.

Q. Did he have a warrant? A. No.

Q. Then they let her out the next day? A. Yes.

Q. Did you see her? A. I saw her that first evening. She was in a cell and crying hysterically. I asked Chief Beavers to let her out in the corridor and I guess he did.

Dorsey took the witness again.

Q. Didn't I tell you that I had absolutely no rights in the matter? A. Something like that, but if you will pardon me, Hugh, I will tell you exactly what was done. I went to you when the police told me they could not let the woman go without an order from you. You told me you had not had the woman arrested and was not having her held.

Q. Now, didn't Febuary read over to you a portion of that affidavit? A. Yes, he read something.

Q. Now, didn't he read a part of the statement, and she added to it the part about the money? A. She said something about money.

Q. Now, what else did she say? A. I don't recall.

Q. Didn't you question her yourself? A. I asked one or two little questions.

Q. What about? A. She said something about a bucket of water that was not very plain, and I questioned her about it.

Rosser took the witness again.

Q. You don't know what happened behind those doors? A. No.

At this point court adjourned until 2 o'clock.

President of State

Board of Health Testifies.

When the afternoon session started Solicitor Dorsey announced that on account of some of the State's witnesses being out of the city he would vary his program. He called Dr. S. E. Benedict, of Athens, president of the State Board of Health, and a member of the faculty of the University of Georgia for 32 years, to the stand.

On the first question asked him, Attorney Arnold made strenuous objection and precipitated a long argument. The question was:

"Were you present at the meeting of the State Board of Health when Dr. Westmoreland preferred charges against Dr. Harris?"

"We object to going into that," said Mr. Arnold. "We would have to get the minutes of the board and all of that."

"I am not going into the matter further than to disprove Dr. Westmoreland's statement," said Mr. Dorsey, "that the State board found Dr. Harris guilty of scientific dishonesty."

"You can go into the question of the feeling of the witness," said Judge Roan.

"Suppose," said Rosser, sarcastically, "Mary had a little lamb, it's fleece was white as snow, would that have anything to do with this case?"

"I am not going into it further than to disprove Dr. Westmoreland's statement," insisted Dorsey.

"Well, I am going into it," said Arnold, "if you don't. I am going to ask him about a letter he wrote Dr. Westmoreland."

"Go ahead, Mr. Dorsey," said Judge Roan.

Q. Were you present when Dr. Westmoreland preferred charges against Dr. Harris? A. Yes.

Q. Were those charges substantiated?

Arnold-Your honor, the minutes are the best evidence.

Dorsey-All right; take the minutes.

The minute book of the State Board of Health was handed the witness.

Q. Look at page 128 and tell me if that is a correct report of that meeting? A. Yes.

Q. Now, doctor, I want to know whether those charges were found to be true.

Arnold-The minutes are the best evidence.

Judge Roan-Are those charges on the minutes?

A. I don't see them.

Q. Well, what was the vote? A. I think it was unanimous.

Arnold-Doctor, where are the charges? A. I suppose they are in the possession of the secretary, somewhere in his office.

Arnold-Dr. Harris, then, has the charges preferred against him? And while the defense is on the minutes, charges are not? A. You misunderstood me. Neither the charges nor the defense are on the minutes. Only the action of the board.

Judge Roan-Didn't Dr. Westmoreland in his testimony say that he preferred charges of scientific dishonesty against Dr. Harris and because the board would not dismiss Dr. Harris that he resigned?

Rosser Says Record Speaks for Itself.

Arnold: "No; Dr. Westmoreland's version was that the board found him guilty but refused to dismiss him, and he (Dr. Westmoreland) resigned."

Dr. Benedict: "That is not true."

Rosser: "Never mind; the record speaks for itself."

Arnold and Rosser then examined the minutes.

Dorsey: "I will ask you if you are familiar with the business and professional life of Dr. Harris?"

"We object," said Rosser, and the objection was sustained.

"Dorsey: "Doctor, what is the condition of the board now?"

Rosser objected again, and was sustained.

Attorney Arnold took the witness.

Q. Doctor, I want to ask you about a letter you wrote Dr. Westmoreland.

Dorsey: "We object to that. It is irrelevant."

Arnold: "I haven't the letter here, but will have it long before the doctor's train leaves."

Judge Roan: "I will wait until I see the letter."

Dorsey offered part of the minutes of the State Board of Health as documentary evidence.

Arnold: "I don't think any of this should go in on the ground that it is irrelevant, immaterial and incompetent."

Judge Roan: "I will let it in for what it is worth."

The defense asked that their objection be recorded.

Dorsey: "I would like to know if the letter of the fourth to the Governor on the subject was admissible."

Rosser: "It is as admissible as any of the other minutes, but we object to it all."

Judge Roan: "I will rule the letter out."

Recalls Examination Of Minola Mc Knight.

Roy Craven, salesman at the Beck & Gregg Hardware Company, was called. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Did you know Minola Mc Knight? A. Yes.

Q. When did you see her last? A. At the police station.

Q. Are you connected with the police? A. No.

Q. How did you come to be there? A. Her husband worked at the same place I do and asked me if I would not go down to the police station and try to get her out.

Q. Were you there when this statement was signed? A. Yes.

Q. Previous to that statement, did you see her at her home? A. Yes.

Q. Who was with you? A. Pickett and her husband.

Q. Why did you go there?

Rosser interposed an objection and was sustained.

Q. Did you go either at the request of the Police Department or myself? A. No.

Q. Now, give me the best recollection of the time, if you can?

Rosser objected, but was overruled.

Q. Give me the day? A. It was the middle part of May.

Q. Now, tell what this woman, Minola Mc Knight, said when she made that affidavit at the police station? A. Well, she would not talk at first, but we told her what Albert had said.

Q. What was it that Albert had said?

The witness gave the substance of the Minola Mc Knight affidavit.

Q. Then what did Minola say? A. She was somewhat reluctant to talk at first, but when we told her what Albert had said she gave us the affidavit without stopping.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. Didn't you know that she was in jail because she would not give the sort of a statement they wanted? A. I did not.

Rosser Objects to Servant's Affidavit.

Q. Why did you think they had her in jail?

Dorsey: "We object to what ne thinks. Stick to the' statements."

Q. Did you go to Mr. Darsey's office before you heard Minola make her statements? A. Yes.

Q. Why did you go there? A. To try to get her out.

Q. It wasn't any trouble to get her out after she made a good statemen', was it? A. I wasn't there when she got out.

Q. Why didn't you stay there? A. I didn't want to.

Q. You got a statement agreeing with what her husband had told you, then you left her in jail? A. I went on out and left her with her husband.

Q. Didn't you try to get Mr. Dorsey to get her out? A. I went to see what I could do.

Q. What did he say? A. He said he would do what he could. He said for me to ga to see Mr. Starnes or Mr. Campbell.

Q. Did you go? A. Yes.

Q. How long did you stay? A. About three hours.

Q. Did you ask them to let her out? A. No.

Q. You don't know what happened before you got there, do you? A. No, I am not a mind reader.

Dorsey: "Now I want to tender this affidavit of Minola Mc Knight is evidence."

Rosser: "All in the world that affidavit can show is the treatment that poor woman received at the hands of the police. It is inadmissible."

Crowd Roars When Sheriff Sits on Floor.

Dorsey: "Every word of it is admissible, because it is a flat and positive repudiation of Minola's sworn statements on the stand."

Judge Roan: "Let me read it. I will rule on it later."

The witness was excused, and E. H. Pickett, also an employee of Beck & Greggs Hardware Company, was called to the stand. Dorsey questioned him. He was given the Minola Mc Knight affidavit to read. Sheriff Mangum, in an attempt to stop talking in the courtroom, met with a little accident that sent a ripple of merriment throughout the room. While Pickett was reading the affidavit, the Sheriff arose from his seat beside the witness stand.

"You people over to the right are talking too much, and if you don't stop I will have to put you out," he said. When he turned to resume his seat he missed the chair and sat down upon the floor with a sad expression on his face. The crowd in the courtroom fairly roared."

Pickett read the affidavit, then Dorsey questioned him.

Q. You were present when that paper was signed, were you not? A. Yes; that is, immediately before Minola signed it.

Q. Who else was there? A. Minola's lawyer, Roy Craven, one or two detectives and myself.

Q. What statement was made before she signed it? A. Albert Mc Knight said she had made certain statements. She then admitted it a little bit at a time.

Q. What did she say first? A. That she had been cautioned not to talk.

Q. Then what? A. She admitted she got a little more money.

Q. Did she say everything shown in this affidavit? A. Not the first part. She didn't make those statements in my presence.

Didn't Appear Willing To Talk Then.

Q. Was she willing to talk? A. No. She said she would talk to me, but she would not talk to the detectives. Before the detectives left she said her husband was a liar.

Q. Did the detectives leave? A. Yes.

Q. Then you questioned her? A. Yes; but we, Craven and myself, could not write shorthand, and sent for the stenographer.

Q. Who was there when she made the statement about Mrs. Frank making certain remarks to her mother? A. Starnes, Campbell, her lawyer, the stenographer, Lanford, Craven and myself.

Q. Well, tell the jury what she said.

Rosser: "The affidavit is the best evidence."

Dorsey: "But you are objecting to the affidavit."

Judge Roan: "I am going to let in that affidavit with the exception of the part that could not be put in regularly. For instance, that part where she quotes the conversation she overheard."

Dorsey: "May I or not, without considering the affidavit, ask him all relevant point of Minola Mc Knight's statement?"

Judge Roan: "You can take the affidavit and ask him about all relevant points."

Dorsey: Mr. Pickett, what did the woman say about Frank eating dinner?

A. First she said he ate dinner. Finally she said he did not.

Q. What did she say first about her husband, Albert, being there? A. At first she said he was not there, finally she said he was.

Q. What did she say about the Seligs and Frank discussing the tragedy Sunday? A. At first she said she did not hear anything. At last she did hear something.

Q What did she say about being told to keep her mouth shut?-

Rosser: "Unless he wants to show that Frank told her that, it is irrelevant."

Counsel in Another Wrangle.

Dorsey: "It is relevant to impeach the negro."

Roan: "It is relevant, I think."

Rosser: "You could not impeach Mr. Selig on such a statement. Certainly is inadmissible to impeach Minola Mc K'night."

Rosser dictated his objections to the court stenographer.

Dorsey: "Answer the question, Mr. Pickett."

A. At first she denied it, then she said Mrs. Selig told her to keep quiet.

Rosser continued to object.

Hooper: "This witness can be put on the stand and impeach half a dozen witnesses."

Roan: "You understand it must be relevant to some issue in this case."

Hooper continued to argue that the question should be admitted.

"Judge Roan: "If you Insist, I will let it in."

Q. What did Minola say with reference to what was said to her about talking? A. She said she was cautioned not to talk.

Q. What did she say at last about receiving a higher or lower wage? A. She said her wages were increased after the crime.

Q. What did she say first about that hat? A. She only made one reference to it.

Q. Did anybody suggest anything about the hat, before anyone asked her about it? A. Yes.

Q. Now who was in there before you went to the door and called the detectives? A. Alfred Mc Knight, Craven and myself.

Offered to Free Her If She Made Statement.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. Now, why didn't you believe her first statement? A. Because we thought different.

Q. You kept her there two or three hours, didn't you? A. Yes.

Q. Did you give her the third degree? A. We didn't call it that.

Q. Did you see Dorsey? A. Yes; we saw him before we went to the police station, and he told us he would arrange for us to see her, and that we might arrange to get her out.

Q. Did you tell Minola that you had come down to get her out? A. We did tell her we wanted to get her out if we got a statement.

Q. Well, why didn't you get her out? A. She left the station house before we did.

Q. After she gave that statement they let her out? A. Yes.

Q. Do you know she left there before you did? A. No, but the detectives said she had.

Q. You didn't know she had been there twelve hours when you got there?-. Yes.

Q. You knew she was there because she would not give the statement the detectives wanted, didn't you? A. No.

Q. You went there to make her give the statement the detectives wanted? A. Not that. I thought it was my duty as a good citizen to aid in getting at the truth.

Rosser (very angrily and with contempt in his voice)-Let him come down; let him come down.

Negro Mc Knight Called to Stand.

The witness was excused, and Albert Mc Knight, husband of Minola Mc Knight, was called to the stand. Hooper questioned him, and had the negro step down from the witness chair and stand before the jury while he displayed a blueprint of the Selig home and a diagram of the dining room and the sideboard mirror, through which Albert said he observed Frank during lunch at the Selig home on Saturday, April 26.

Q. Where were you sitting in the kitchen on that day?

Rosser-I object; you went over all this on the direct examination.

Hooper-We had no diagram then; that was brought in by the defense.

Judge Roan-The witness may explain the diagram.

Hooper-I want ta show by this witness that the sideboard has been moved so as to change the angle of vision.

Q. How is the location of the sideboard to what it was when you saw it? A. It has been pushed around.

The witness pointed out the change to the jury on the diagram.

Rosser took the witness.

Q. How do you know this has been changed? Were you there when it was changed? A. No, sir; but I can tell by looking at the diagram.

Girl Called to Stand by Dorsey.

Miss Nellie Wood, a former employee of the National Pencil Factory, was called to the stand by Solicitor Dorsey. Attorney Rosser, anticipating the character of her testimony, announced that he would like a definite ruling at once regarding the introduction of certain character evidence. The jury retired.

Frank's wife and mother left the courtroom by request. Dorsey addressed the court. "We want to show by this witness actual specific misconduct on the part of this defendant. We want to show that Frank made an indecent proposal to this lady. It shows his conduct and his character; and I submit that it is material."

Rosser: "Your honor, they have no right in the world to put that testimony in. We have never put any evidence in that would allow the introduction of this testimony in rebuttal. We insist that you rule definitely. All the evidence we have put in to show Frank's conduct was in rebuttal to the statements of Conley."

Judge Roan: "Mr. Dorsey, tell me how you can get around the statutes, that you can not ask specific instances on one's character except on cross-examination."

Dorsey: "What about the questions of Mr. Arnold to the women who worked on the fourth floor of the National Pencil Factory?"

Judge Roan: "To my mind it is not debatable."

Dorsey: "Then we are shut out."

"Judge Roan: "The law shuts you out. On the principle you advance you could put a man on trial at this time for everything he ever did in his life."

Dorsey: "I don't want to send the jury out any more. I have witnesses to prove other things. Can I prove

Continued on Page 5, Column 1.

PAGE 15, COLUMN 1

WITNESSES GIVE DALTON GOOD REPUTATION

Continued From Page 4.

that a girl saw Frank with another woman in the dark?"

Judge Roan: "No."

Dorsey: "Can I show his conduct-slapping girls as he passed through the factory?"

Judge Roan-You can show a bad character by this woman or any other; but you can't show a specific act.

The jury was recalled.

Dorsey Says Witness Mislead Him.

Dorsey questioned the witness.

Q. Do you know the character of Leo M. Frank? A. No, I only knew him two days.

Q. I mean what people said about him; say yes or no.

Rosser-She has answered the question; that should end it.

Judge Roan-Do you know his character; answer yes or no A. No.

Dorsey addressed the court.

"Your honor, I have been mislead by this witness."

Rosser-I don't care anything about that.

Judge Roan-She hasn't said anything to hurt you, and you can not proceed as though you were entrapped.

Dorsey-Miss Wood, do you remember a conversation with me-(Rosser interrupted.)

Rosser-Now that is absolutely inadmissible.

Judge Roan-I sustain you.

Dorsey-Come down.

J. H. Kendricks, a street car motorman, followed Miss Wood on the stand. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Were you running a street car on April 26? A. Yes.

Q. Do you know a man named Matthews? A. No.

Q. What route were you on April 26? A. Mariettan street to the stock yards.

Q. Is that a portion of the English avenue and Cooper street line? A. Yes.

Declares Cars Run

Ahead of Time Often.

Q. What time did you get to town that day about noon? A. I can not remember exactly, but I never get there any later than 12:06.

Q. Did the English avenue car with Matthews and Hollis running it ever get to that corner ahead of time? A. It certainly did.

Q. Do you know what time they got relieved for dinner at Marietta and Broad streets? A. At 12:07.

Q. About April 26, and prior to that time, did Matthews and Hollis ever get to that corner ahead of time, and if so how much? A. Two to three minutes.

Q. When Hollis would be at the corner of Broad and Marietta, and your car was on time, what would Hollis do about going to dinner? A. He would go on my car.

The witness was excused and J. C. Mc Ewen, another motorman was called. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Did you run on the Cooper street line prior to April 26? A. Yes.

Q. Do you recall what time the Cooper street car would arrive at Broad and Marietta streets with reference to your car? A. My car got there at 12:10.

Q. What time would the car Matthews and Hollis were on get there, if the car was on time? A. 12:07.

Q. What time does the White City car get there? A. At 12:05.

Q. Did the English avenue or Cooper ever cut off the White City care and come in ahead of it? A. Very often.

Q. Do you know the car that Matthews and Hollis run? A. I know their schedule.

Q. Has their car ever cut off the White City car? A. Their schedule has. I don't know who was on it.

Q. Have you ever come in ahead of time? A. Yes.

Q. Frequently? A. Yes; when coming in on a relief trip.

Q. How much was the most you ever came in ahead of time?

Rosser objected and was sustained.

Q. How much is the most you ever knew the English avenue line car to come in ahead of time A. Three or four minutes.

Rosser took the witness.

Q. When was that? A. I don't remember the exact date.

Q. You don't know whether Matthews and Hollis were on schedule on April 26 or not, do you? A. No.

Witness Says He Saw Girl at About 12 O'Clock.

Q. Isn't it as feasible for the White City car to be blocked by the English avenue car because the White City car is late as because the English avenue car is ahead of time? A. Yes.

The witness was excused.

M. E. Mc Coy, a painter and farmer of Bolton, Ga., was called. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Did you know Mary Phagan? A. Yes.

Q. Did you see her on April 26? A. Yes; I saw her in front of No. 12 Forsyth street going toward Alabama street.

Q. What time was it? A. About 12 o'clock.

Q. How near 12 o'clock? A. Well, I left Walton and Forsyth streets at 12 o'clock.

Q. How long afterward was this? A. Three or four minutes.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. When was the first time you told this? A. I think it was a week ago, last Saturday.

Q. Was that the first time you ever told it? A. It was the first time I ever told an officer. I don't know about anybody else.

Q. You didn't know everything was being done to find out about her? A. Well, I didn't know it was very important, and I didn't want to get mixed up in it. Then I saw the statement of the motorman that she got off the car at Broad and Hunter streets and I knew that was wrong.

Q. You saw by George Epps' statement too, didn't you? A. I don't remember about that.

Q. How do you know it was 12 o'clock? A. I looked at my watch.

Q. Where were you yesterday at 12 o'clock? A. At Buckhead.

Q. Did you look at your watch? A. Yes.

The witness was excused and Geo. Henley, a street car motorman, was called. Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Did you know Mary Phagan? A. Yes.

Q. Did you see her on April 26? A. Yes.

Q. What time was it? A. About 12 o'clock.

Q. Which way was she going? A. Going south on Forsyth street. She had just stepped off the viaduct.

Rosser took the witness on cross-examination.

Q. What time did you get off that day? A. At 11:40 O'clock.

Q. What had you done between that time and noon? A. I went down to Hastings' seed store on Mitchell street and then caught a car back.

Q. What time did the car get back? A. Its schedule is 12 o'clock.

Q. Who else did you see that you knew that day? A. I saw lots of people.

Q. Name one?-I can't say. When I saw in the papers about this girl I remembered seeing her.

Dorsey took the witness.

Q. You are not mistaken about seeing Mary Phagan? A. No.

Rosser took the witness.

Q. Haven't you been villifying this defendant on the street cars until you have made yourself a nuisance?

Dorsey objected and Judge Roan overruled him.

A. No.

Q. Didn't you tell Mr. Brent that you knew Frank was guilty? A. No.

Q. When did you tell this first? A. About the day after.

Q. Who did you tell? A. Lots of people.

Q. Name one? A. Mr. Means, for one.

Q. Why didn't you go down and tell the Coroner's jury about this? A. No one asked me to.

Q. You are a good citizen? Why did you keep this secret locked up in your bosom? A. I did not.

Q. Didn't you tell Mr. Brent that Frank's children told your children? A. No.

Q. Didn't you, in the presence of Mrs. Haas on the College Park car, vilify Frank? A. No.

Q. Haven't you just been blowing and making yourself a nuisance on the cars? And didn't you say that if he was released, you would join a party to lynch him? A. No; let me explain.

Q. No; answer my question. A. No.

Dorsey-Is it right, your honor, to ask this man that question without first putting the witnesses on the stand?

Judge Roan-He is your witness-he is only trying. to show interest.

Rosser-Answer my question, then.

A. No.

Q. When did you first tell the detectives about all of this? A. About a week ago, when the detectives came to me.

Q. Now, when did you tell that fellow Means about it? A. It was right after the first day.

Q. What did you tell me right at the first? A. That it was about 12 o'clock.

Q. You didn't look at your watch, did you? A. No.

Q. Well, it might have been 12:10? A. No, it was very near 12 o'clock.

Q. Starting from Lindsay street at 10 minutes to 12, what is the earliest time she could have got to town? A. 12:50.

Q. Will you swear it was as early 12:05 o'clock that you saw her? A. Yes.

Q. Give me the number of your car. A. 1465.

The witness was excused and Dr. Clarence Johnson, a specialist on the stomach and intestines, was called.

Dorsey questioned him.

Q. Doctor, what is pathology?-A: A pathologist is one who makes a special research of diseased conditions

Q. What are the subjects? A. The dead or fluids supposed to be dead.

Q. What is a physiologist?

Rosser: "We must object to all of this. We think we know grammar, yet you might entrap us. I may know what a participle is, but I couldn't swear it to save my life."

"There isn't a branch of business, profession or trade in the world that hasn't got cranks or fools in it," added Rosser.

Hits Evidence Of Dr. Hancock.

Judge Roan: "It is a matter for the jury."

A. A physician of the actions of the human body and health.

Q. What position have you ever held with local colleges? A. I was once professor of physiology and pathology. Now I hold the chair of stomach and intestine diseases.

Q. Who succeeded you? A. Dr. Harris, as head of the department of pathology.

Q. When did Dr. Bachman come in? A. Several years ago.

Dorsey showed the witness specimens of the cabbage taken from the stomach of Mary Phagan; also specimens taken from the stomachs of other persons.

Q. If you gave a person cabbage three or four hours after they had drank a chocolate milk, and if the cabbage was taken out of the stomach 40 minutes later and showed chocolate coloring, was it a normal stomach? A. That quantity of stuff taken from a stomach 30 minutes after eating would show an abnormal stomach.

This was a sample that had been exhibited by Dr. Hancock, a witness for the defense. The witness also said that another of Dr. Hancock's specimens of tomato was taken from an abnormal stomach. To a hypothetical question from Solicitor Dorsey as to the time a specimen of cabbage was in Mary Phagan's stomach before death, Attorney Arnold objected.

Arnold-If this is allowed, we will bring back all our experts.

Dorsey-That is not so terrifying to Us. It is now almost 6 o'clock. This is very important to the State. Will the court allow me to cite some authorities to-morrow?

Judge Roan-I will.

Court then adjourned until 9 o'clock Wednesday morning.

PAGE 12, COLUMN 1

LEO FRANK SKETCHED AS HE TOLD HIS OWN STORY TO JURY

During the greater part of his story Frank was as calm and statistical as an accountant discussing an audit.

In telling of his dealings with the police and Chief of Detectives Lanford, Frank waxed sarcastic in a quiet yet bitter way. But he never let loose his emotion or lost his poise.

At times Frank would lose his air of complete repression and his face for a moment would take on an aspect of deep feeling. He would, however, quickly resume his normal expression of stoicism.